You are kidding, right…Right?

The Daily Kos can no more claim credit for getting Marsden dumped than Marsden herself can claim to be sane.

Marsden has been on thin ice for many many months: conservatives, “blue liberals”, libertarians, sanity loving neocons, as well as the conventional left have been opposed to her presence in the Sun’s pages for a looooooooong time.

She is simply unspectacular as a writer; from a factual stand-point her columns have been only loosely based on reality, at best; and she has always transcended ideology in the sense that waterboarding and other torture techniques are embraced across the fanatical ideological spectrum. There is nothing “conservative” about it.

Ms. Marsden’s scandalous and ludicrous conduct in politics, punditry, and personal behaviour have drawn scorn, contempt and ridicule by virtually everybody who knows her.

I am personally acquainted with a number of conservatives who lobbied for her spiking at the Toronto Sun.

For you to swallow whole her crazed and delusional spin that an obscure far left American blog somehow orchestrated her demise is flat out laughable.

Never having read Ms. Marsden’s column, I can’t say whether it’s any good or not–but considering DailyKos absolutely hates it, it can’t be all that bad.

Unfortunately, DailyKos is far from ‘obscure’. Thousands upon thousands of liberals read it, and many Democrat politicians take their advice as if they’re not a bunch of stoned half-witted communists who, if told that eating dog turds makes Baby Jesus cry, would go get a mouthful right now. Nor is Ms. Marsden’s career the first they’ve trashed for the crime of disagreeing with them.

JC, you may be right, but I’m still getting one of the T-shirts.

I don’t agree with JC on several points.

First when all the Democrat presidential hopefuls show up at your yearly convention you are hardly and “obscure” blog. Second, I found Rachel’s columns to be both entertaining and refreshing, but we’re all entitled to our opinions.

I’m not surprised that Rachael got the axe. What I am surprised at is that she lasted this long. Here in the People’s Republic of Canada liberals run the show, both figuratively and literally.

I work in radio in downtown Toronto, and believe me when I tell you it’s a liberal cesspool that makes California look like Georgia. The Sun is dismissed as a conservative rag because it’s closer to the center than Pravda (aka the Toronto Star). Anti-Americanism is fervent and as easy to find as a Starbucks, and the mainstream general consensus is that not only is George Bush stupid and evil, he orchestrated 9/11.

There are two Toronto dailies, (the Sun and the Star) plus two National papers (the National Post and the Globe and Mail) available on newsstands in Toronto. All of them lean to the left, it’s just a matter of what degree. All of them are losing readers (myself included) hand over fist as well. I wonder if that’s a coincidence?

You are bang on, JC.

But…

How do you explain her many other “non-Kos” related firings, from everywhere from FOX to the National Post?

I agree with Marsden on many issues, but there is more going on here than a lefty email campaign. Please don’t give Kos credit for a “win” that they don’t deserve — it only empowers them.

Who cares

JC is obviously a drug crazed lying lieberal bedwetting moonbat who loves the fact that another voice has been silenced.

Marsden was a voice of sanity in the depths of the Hell of lieberal Canada. I hope she finds another outlet soon.

Typical of the left, free speech, IF, and ONLY IF, you agree with the lefty viewpoint. I want the t-shirt, will likely order a bunch and give them as Christmas gifts to all family and friends

Who the hell reads the Toronto Sun!?!?

What is their circulation, 250,000 or less??

If the New York Times is just over 1,000,000 subscribers then the Toronto Sun has to have far less.

Almost makes this a non-story!

It’s always a “non-story” when a liberal abuses free speech at the expense of a conservative voice.

[…] check out LotusBlog that brought all of this to light here in the […]

[…] Thanks to The LOTUS Blog, Ann Coulter, and American Thinker for their recent […]

[…] a temporary setback in Marsden’s career, there is certainly something ominous about the thugs LOTUS blog refers to as “Hugo Chavez Democrats” — unhinged bullies who will not rest until […]

I’m a Toronto Sun insider and I can attest to the fact that many people here, of all political persuasions, wanted Rachel Marsden gone long before she went. There are several reasons why she lasted 2 years, not the least of which is corporate inertia. And a cursory check of her past will tell you the Sun is not the only media organization, right or left, to have given her the heave-ho recently.

My prediction for Ms. Marsden is that, as she has nothing new to say, it won’t be long before the major media outlets in the U.S. have had their fill of her as well. They already have Coulter, who is cannier, huskier and more inflammatory. I see a comfortable niche on the fringes of the blogosphere, where she can preach to the converted, ad nauseum.

And I don’t know what Toronto Richard Upward is living and working in, and who he talks to, but it’s not the one I live in. “The mainstream general consensus is that … George Bush … orchestrated 9/11.” ?!?!! That’s just bizarre! Not only have I NEVER heard anyone with any credibility or intelligence say this, in the media or elsewhere, but “the general consensus?” That would be the extremists talking. Not only did the Toronto Sun support Bush, and to a lesser extent continues to do so, but our current federal government is pro-American and pro-Bush.

I like the t-shirt. Anyone who doesn’t want us to ‘waterboard’ these psycho insane jihadis for info should themselves be ‘waterboarded’. Just on principle. I’d like to see them use cattle prods and hot iron pokers, too. Why all the love for the jihadis, who would kill ALL of us if they could?
If you could stop an attack by these methods then they should be used. Simple, really. At least for me it is; I actually remember those two buildings that used to be in downtown Manhattan. Thank God GWBush is staying on the attack. We’re in a LongWar.
Who cares who this babe writes for? This will probably help her career in the long run.

Well said Mike in Tucker. I ordered a dozen of the T-shirts and plan on giving them to all my liberal friends. It’s difficult for me, even as a Jesus-Loving, Southern Gentleman to believe that anyone would not support measures designed, and proven to be effective in extracting information from psycho insane jihadis, to be implemented as a standard, especially during wartimes. I suppose that liberals would rather speak kindly with them, give them hugs and kisses, right before they lost their heads… so to speak. Radical islamists really don’t care who they torture, maim, or kill, liberals included. This is war on all who don’t buy into the warped version of Islam that these nuts are using in an attempt to rule the world with their insanity. If you don’t believe the way they do, they will kill you. If you don’t act, dress, pray, eat, drink, etc., the way they tell you to, they want you silenced and/or dead. Hmmm… reminds me of radical liberals… I’m with Ms. Marsden on this one.

When I hear about newspapers (and networks) bleeding readers I have to hold my head in wonder that the people who run these things don’t understand that the reason isn’t just the fact that the internet and other news sources are available - it’s also the frantic tilt toward the left in the main stream media. Best example is Time magazine and the New York Times, both of which are sinking faster than the Titanic. The response from the willfully blind editors of same is TO MOVE EVEN FURTHER TO THE LEFT! Which causes more readers to abandon ship. and so on…

But that’s not the real story here. The real story is WHERE ARE THE ENTRPRENAURS, those who want to MAKE money, by starting up a truly conservative news network - not FOX, which (let’s face it) really is objective, but an openly conservative in your face news newspaper, and news network. After all, if there is a golf channel, for crying out loud, why can’t there be a conservative channel? If capitalism is based on a “find a need and fill it” principle - talk radio is the best example I can think of - then here is really a need waiting for some future billionaire to work to fill.

BSD

B. Samuel Davis raises an interesting point. Why are there no mainstream, wholly conservative media outlets, especially in TV? After all, conservatives almost by definition are pro-business, free enterprise types who are not averse to making money and are usually adept at finding ways to do so.

Maybe it’s because there isn’t a profit in it. The National Review has been in business for decades and has to depend on donations and gifts just to stay afloat (on the left The Nation is in the same boat). Davis says Fox is objective. It didn’t start out that way, but slowly drifted closer to the centre. It may be because that’s where most of the people are, and therefore that’s where the bucks are.

The truly capital “C” conservative TV outlets, at least the ones that make money, tend to be religious in nature. Speaking as a moderate and a follower of no particular party, I would welcome THOUGHTFUL, WELL-REASONED analysis and argument from a serious conservative outlet, American or Canadian (I am Canadian) instead of the yelling, haranguing name-calling we are normally subjected to.

Oh, and btw, EVERY PAPER, left or right, with the possible exception of the New York Post, is sinking to one degree or another.

Man i just love your blog, keep the cool posts comin..

“I don’t know what Toronto Richard Upward is living and working in, and who he talks to, but it’s not the one I live in” - Wayne

I’m sure it’s the same one as you. Trust me. At the corner of Spadina and Richmond, Bush is considered public enemy number one. And I wasn’t suggesting that I’d heard it in the media. Just from people in the building, at the coffee shop, at the TTC stop etc. Stop and talk to any on the urbanites in T.O. and I’m sure you’ll hear the same moonbat theories. Remember you don’t need intelligence or credibility to have an opinion … or a vote. And while our federal government might be pro American, our Premier and our Mayor hardly are.

PS - I’m sure Richard Upward is a very nice guy

“PS - I’m sure Richard Upward is a very nice guy”

I apologize, Robert, for the typo.

Talk to enough people in any city about any subject and you’ll get “moonbat” theories. But I find the moonbats are generally in the minority and tend to “moonbatness” on pretty much everything, so they kind of cancel themselves out.

I have many colleagues, friends and family members on both sides of the Bush/Iraq War issue (and they aren’t necessarily the same thing), but I have NEVER heard anyone I have talked to say Bush or anyone he’s associated with orchestrated 9/11. And I have heard him described as everything from brilliant to misunderstood to evil — and that’s at the coffee shop, at the TTC and around my desk.

P.S. And I’m sure Robert Upward is a decent guy, too.

Wayne,

Exactly what Toronto are you living in? I’ve lived here for 45 years and can attest with certainty that the “lefties” here, yourself included HATE Mr. Bush. Step away from the Lieberal watercooler my friend and you’ll easily find moonbats that adhere to the “Rosie” theory that it was all the CIA’s and/or Isreal’s doing (in co-operation with the White House). The Sun has lost me forever. Comrade Clancy can do what he likes, I’m gone ! Long Live Rachel Marsden.

When Rachel left RED EYE, so did I…she was the only sane person on that set!!! And the only person there with an IQ above room temp.

Fox now drools…long live the career of Rachel.

over…

kgb

Chuck M

Moonbatness is as moonbatness does. It is by definition extreme and crazy … and better off dismissed, as you dismiss Rosie and her ilk.

On the other hand, as to George Bush being HATED, as you say — I can, and if you don’t mind, WILL speak for myself on this … I don’t HATE Bush, I just think he’s wrong. And apparently so does the majority of the American people. His approval rating has gone from around 90% just after 9/11 to about the mid-30s, where it seems to be stuck. And the media (pretty much ALL the media) followed his lead on almost everything, so it’s a bit disingenuous to blame them. You’re not the only one who thinks for himself.

I love to read, and what I love to read most is well-written and well-argued essays and opinions from all sides … writing that doesn’t resort to cheap, one-dimensional soundbites, easy name-calling and lazy thinking. Rachel Marsden isn’t, and never was, it.

Wayne,

My friend, you talk of lazy thinking, but tell me this. Exactly what was wrong with taking the Butcher of Baghdad out permanently? Did he not defy the UN for 13 years? Did he not start two wars with his neighbours causing the deaths of over 1 million people? Did he not almost start a world war by firing missles into a non-combatant country during the first Persian Gulf tilt? did he not thumb his nose at the UN when they tried for YEARS to find his secret WMD programs? Did he not fund terrorists, or thei suriving families, who bombed innocent civilians? Was he not the greatest environmental “terrorist” of all time? Did he not STEAL billions of dollars from his own people with the perverted “oil for food program”? Did he not murder hundreds of thousands of his people including gassing 5,000 of them simply because they were of a different ethinic group? I could go on but I hope I have made the point.

Why exactly was it “wrong” to take this piece of human filth out? Are we not supposed to learn the lessons of history? Imagine if you will that Britian and France had stopped Mr. Hitler when he marched into Austria or the Sudatenland. Instead “appeasement” was the policy and what resulted? The deaths of millions and the virtual destruction of Europe. the difference now my friend is the weaponry is far more serious.

While I do not have the gift of brilliant writing and likely pale in comparison to you in that regard, as you point out, I can think for myself.

So, after taking into account all of these things, please tell me, exactly why was it wrong? It should have been a message to “low lifes” like our North Korean, Iranian and Venezulan friends, but it has failed miserably due to the weakness of the world to fully stand behind this type of action. The UN has no teeth whatsoever and until it does, I applaud men like Mr. Bush for doing what needed to be done. I think history will see it accordingly. I look forward to your response.

Respectfully yours,

Chuck M.

Chuck M:

If the reasoning for removing Saddam is all, or even some, of the things you cited (incursions into neighbouring countries, killing his own people, etc.) then about half of Africa and large parts of Asia and South America should have been on the table as well. Why Iraq? Why not Rwanda or Darfur? Iraq was contained as a power. It proved, before, during and after the invasion, to be a weakling, a dusty, broken nation incapable of any real resistance. To compare Saddam to Hitler is to make a false comparison. Hitler’s Germany was united, it had a strong military, it had allies, it had already expanded its borders, its desire for world domination was clear. Iraq was none of those.

There was no mistake in wanting to take out Saddam, but was it necessary to kill tens of thousands of Iraqis to do it? None of the senior members of Bush’s administration had served in the military or lived in an Arab state, except Colin Powell. Every advisor, including Powell and Bush’s own father, who had experience with either of those conditions advised Bush against invasion because they knew what would happen. They were ignored due to hubris on the part of Bush and his circle. The U.S. had no exit strategy nor any idea of what to do after Saddam fell. They allowed the country to deteriorate further (looting of the museums, the destruction of the infrastructure, the complete disbanding of the army and civil service) because they didn’t think one minute past “Mission accomplished”.

And supporting terrorism? What about Saudi Arabia? 15 of the 9/11 terrorists were Saudi. Osama is Saudi. His money comes from there. It’s the most repressive and fanatical Muslim country in the Middle East. What about Syria, widely regarded as the biggest supporter of terrorism in the region? What about Iran, another major supporter of terrorism? Why Iraq? The U.S. is in a quagmire and military enlistment is stagnant. If the U.S. reinstated the draft I am convinced you would see an anti-war movement comparable to the late ’60s.

War is insane. No well-educated, technologically advanced nation with a high standard of living WANTS to go to war. No soldier WANTS to put his life on the line. Sane people and nations only go to war when they HAVE to, when there’s no other choice. America’s choice was to stay out of WWII, despite Hitler, until it was attacked. You argue that America was attacked on 9/11, and you’re right, but the attack was from terrorists. Terrorist attacks always come from WITHIN, as Britain found out. As was amply proved in the U.S., a plane in the wrong hands is a weapon of mass destruction. America’s openness makes it viable as a target. And don’t forget that the deadliest terrorist attack on U.S. soil before 9/11 was the Oklahoma City bombing, 100% American and home-grown.

And while we’re at it let’s look at torture, not from a moral or legal standpoint, but from a purely pragmatic one. First, does it work? Most experts, and common sense, say no. You’d say you could fly if that would make the pain stop. What message does it send to your enemies? Because there is no “army” then organizers would give any combatant, insurgent or terrorist only the minimum information they needed so that if they’re captured they can give nothing away. What message does it send to the people you’re trying to liberate? That the country that preaches due process and accuseds’ rights is ready to dispense with those virtues and that it’s quite happy to commit the same kind of atrocities against imprisoned but uncharged Iraqis as Saddam was guilty of. The U.S. has to be BETTER than the enemy in order to achieve its goal (and I don’t mean smarter, I mean RIGHT). Otherwise torture is just vengeance.

Bush is wrong not because he wanted Saddam taken out, but because he ignored his experienced advisors, because he was incautious and incurious, because he believes he can defeat terrorism by bombing a single country. His attack failed to dissuade other rogue nations not because the U.N. is weak, but because he revealed the U.S. to be weak — not militarily, but in many other ways that count, in ways that are noted by other nations. He demonstrated that you can have the power to bomb a nation to dust and still become trapped. Because he showed that if the U.S. is a Goliath all you need to defeat it is 100 Davids.

With regards,
Wayne

One specific and mandatory question for all Presidential candidates.

Would you, or would you not have “waterboarded” Khlaid Sheikh Mohammed?

I think it will give voters a clear choice on a significant issue.

Let the voters decide.

It is absolutely amazing. Why are liberals so frightened of free speech, except their own?? The Sun, and its new editor, will soon be history while Rachel will thrive in a new venue. Hey Rach, pull an Ann Coulter; write a book blasting the Daily Kooks, I mean Kos, your ex-editor in chief and the libs in Canada in general and watch the money and invites to talk shows skyrocket while your smacked-down former colleagues shudder in fear of the Kooks(there I go again) Kos and lily-livered Lou.
What a screwed up bunch they are!!!

[…] Vance wrote an interesting post today!.Here’s a quick excerptMake the Toronto Sun aware of how abhorrent and completely UNCANADIAN they are for publishing such tripe. If they don’t want to live in a country with morals and humanitarian ethics? They know where the door is. … […]

Wayne,

My friend you are obviously intelligent, well read, thoughtful and articulate. However, you miss my point in some ways.

Frankly, I’d have no problem with “bombing to dust” Iraq, Iran, Syria, the Saudis et al. My reason is simple. None of them arenow, or will ever be, our friends or allies. Their thinking is that of 6th century men. We are NOT Crusades out to take their land. I’d love to live in peace with them but it will NEVER happen. They will not stop until either: 1) We live in an Islamofacist state throughout the world. 2) We are all dead 3) They are all dead. I think you know my preference.

Let us look at the example of Japan after WW2. People say the Arabs will never change. Japan sure did after being blasted to bits !!! Perhaps, after losing hundreds of thousands of their people they too will embrace change.

Respectfully.

Wayne,
It just doesn’t work to defer the argument about the war in Iraq to other problem areas of the word. The “what about Darfur” argument leads you back to the same conclusion, it is an endless loop that says “if we can’t solve all the problems of the world simultaneously, then we best not solve any”. I tire of the libs constantly retorting with “what about N Korea, or Ruwanda? or , or ,or. Not one of them has anything to do with Iraq, we pick our battles based on interest, security, allies, and probably a whole host of other objectives not the least of which was the attempted murder of a former Pres. and their definate role in the 93 WTC bombings. Anyone who does not whole heartily support the rightous demise of Sadam and his sons, really doesn’t have a problem with dictatorships and human abuse at all. I mean there’s still Darfur.

Collin

So what if Marsden waterboarded her swim coach, and harassed that puke Mike Morgan. The fact is , Marsden is a Hottie and in the world of conservatives, that is a rarity. It gives me hope that being conservative might someday be as sexy as being a liberal.

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